The Last LLF Debate (?)- As it happens

Anglican Futures
Feb 12
13 min read

Updated: Feb 13

Today the bishops will try to draw a line under the complete chaos of the Living in Love and Faith process. At the same time will try to keep up the momentum for bespoke services of blessing for same-sex couples and enabling clergy to enter into same-sex marriage.

This blog post will try to keep you informed through the twists and turns of the debate, which begins at 2pm.

For background - Anglican Futures made six points about the report the bishops have put forward (read here)

1) The House of Bishops are, above all else, committed to "walking together".

2) The House of Bishops continue to commend the use of the Prayers of Love and Faith (PLF).

3) The House of Bishops only apologise for the pain caused by them by not moving further, faster.

4) The only discipline proposed by the House of Bishops for those who infringe their guidance is 'informal' and possibly 'optional'.

5) The only criticism is for those who have taken a stand against the use of the Prayers of Love and Faith

6) As the LLF process draws to a close, another process begins.

The proposed motion is:

That this Synod:

(a) recognise and lament the distress and pain many have suffered during the LLF process, especially LGBTQI+ people;

(b) affirm that the LLF Programme and all work initiated by the February 2023 LLF Motion and subsequent LLF Motions will conclude by July 2026;

(c) thank the LLF Working Groups for their committed and costly work, which will now draw to a close with the conclusion of this synodical process;

(d) commend the House of Bishops in establishing the Relationships, Sexuality and Gender Working Group and Relationships, Sexuality and Gender Pastoral Consultative Group for continuing work.

Any proposed amendments will be published at lunchtime and will be copied below.

Amendments

Each amendment will be debated if 25 people stand to show they want to have the debate.

It is likely that they will be voted on 'in Houses' - in other words it will need a majority of bishops, a majority of clergy and a majority of laity for the amendment to pass.

Main debate

Introduced by the Archbishop of York, who admitted bishops had taken "solace in ambiguity".

Revd Clare Robson- "My partner is 88, we are unlikely to marry but we live as a visible sign of God's love"

Revd Jody Stowell - "Of course, God loves his LGBTQI children in their particularity"

Ms Busola Sodeinde - "Our brothers and sisters in the Global South are hurting as well"

Rt Revd Michael Volland -"While not perfect, the motion as it stands maintains momentum while not promising a particular outcome."

Mrs Anna de Castro - "This appears to be a debate that even the bishops on either side of the debate are prepared to die on."

Revd Rachel Mann - "I don't want lament, not after all the bruising decades, I want action."

The Revd Charlie Baczyk-Bell (Southwark) to move as an amendment:

58 ‘Leave out paragraph (a) and insert

“( ) recognise and lament the distress and pain many LGBTQIA+ people continue to suffer because the Church of England remains unwilling to affirm their faithful, committed and legally-recognised relationships”.’

Introduced with a typically passionate speech from Revd Charlie Baczyk-Bell, - "How dare you and how dare we come again to this place to lament and recognise distress and pain, while we continue to inflict it on LGBTQIA people?"

Revd Kathryn Campion-Spall - "'Sorry', means you won't do it again"

Revd Morwenna Ludlow - Compared LGBTQIA+ people to the woman who touches hem of Jesus' cloak who taught disciples the truth (too long to quote)

Revd Ian Paul - t"... the debate is between those who continue to uphold the doctrine of the Church, not just the Church of England, the Church catholic, through all ages and all places, in all traditions and all contexts, according to the teaching of our Lord, and those who want to see it changed."

Revd Simon Clift - "Eleven years ago I hoped for good disagreement, now I look for a good-enough settlement."

Voting by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	6	22	9
Clergy	80	90	5
Laity	88	94	7

The amendment was lost in all three houses

The Revd Dr Christopher Landau (Lichfield) to move as an amendment:

59 ‘After paragraph (a) insert:

“( ) acknowledge that the LLF process has revealed theological diversity among LGBTQI+ people, and that the church and its chaplaincies should be sensitive to this diversity;”.

Revd Dr Christopher Landau introduced the motion - "I believe we need, as one body going forward, to own our collective theological complexity."

Dr Laura Oliver - "My efforts to live a life shaped by my identity as a treasured child of God, accepting and rejoicing in a life of singleness and celibacy, as modelled by Jesus himself have been undermined and diminished by statements made in this chamber."

Mr James Wilson - "Twelve years ago a fourteen year old member of our congregation, Lizzie, committed suicide. The inquest that followed her death found that she had struggled to reconcile her faith with her coming to terms with her realisation that she was gay."

Revd James Menzies - "There are Christians who experience same-sex attraction and hear the call to live their lives in obedience to the Church's received teaching - this is a hard calling in today's culture."

Mr Matthew Edwards - "At first glance [this motion] sounds inclusive but it subtlely waters down the hurt and harm experienced by LGBTIAQ+ people in this Church. The diversity it refers to are the small number of same-sex attracted people who remain celibate."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	0	30	7
Clergy	75	99	2
Laity	82	98	6

With a small number of votes not cast because the voting machine was not working.

The amendment was lost in all three houses

Dr Ros Clarke (Lichfield) to move as an amendment:

60 ‘After paragraph (a) insert: “( ) call on the House of Bishops to apologise for their failure to pay due attention to the legal advice which has not changed since February 2023, causing them to make promises which could not be kept, raise hopes which have been disappointed, and betray trust which has yet to be restored.”.’

Ros Clarke introduced the amendment - "I believe as Christians we do not simply acknowledge that mistakes have been made... - No, we confess the specifics of what we have done wrong - we turn to Christ in repentance."

Revd Neil Robbie - "Good governance needs good data... quantitative assertions also have the same power as data."

Mr Samuel Wilson - "Synod, I think we have a problem. We are addicted to apologies."

Revd Jonathan MacNeaney - "There have been times when I and others have pushed for change on simple majorities, majorities which I have now come to believe should not have been made without a two-thirds majority."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	0	36	2
Clergy	60	105	7
Laity	68	107	7

The amendment was lost in all three houses

The Revd Canon Stuart Cradduck (Lincoln) to move as an amendment:

61 ‘Leave out paragraph b.’

Revd Stuart Cradduck introduced the amendment calling for a, "A Church that has become more like Christ - inclusive, secure and hopeful."

Revd Catherine Shelley - "We've celebrated commitments made by those members and will continue to do so whatever happens to PLF because we didn't need PLF to give us prayers to celebrate love."

Mr Philip Baldwin - "Why have LGBTQI people been sacrificed for asking for so little in the frst place? Why can't we have our meagre requests accommodated?"

Revd Philip Bromiley - "Sometimes pausing and taking a breath and reflecting can be the biggest lesson. I do think we need to heed the bishops' advice and leave things behind for a minute."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	0	36	2
Clergy	74	94	8
Laity	78	101	6

Lost in all three houses

Mrs Vicky Brett (Peterborough) to move as an amendment:

62 ‘After paragraph (b) insert: “( ) affirm that restrictions on the use of the Prayers of Love and Faith in ‘standalone’ services should be removed at the earliest opportunity and that clergy should be enabled to use or refrain from using the said Prayers at such services according to conscience;”.’

Mrs Vicky Brett introduced the amendment with some blunt talking -"Either love us and treat us as equals or back off and take your foot off our neck.... If your conscience won't allow you to bless, then don't, but stay in your lane and do not interfere with our conscience."

Mr Brendan Biggs - "In the book of Acts, as Philip has just reminded us, the Old Testament dietary laws are set aside in the interests of inclusivity."

Revd Canon Dr Mandy Ford - "May I assure you that the ring that I wear on the fourth finger of my left hand is not the sign of the passing of ownership from my civil partner - it is the sign of the enduring faithful permanence of the love we share. Whether it is a sign that we are married, I want to argue is a matter of interpretation not legislation."

Revd Paul Chamberlain - "Why did we not spend the nuanced time as we did yesterday looking at the liturgy that we may introduce there on the Prayers of Love and Faith? Instead the bishops commended propbably the most controversial liturgical changes in many years, but without the full, proper, synodical process."

Revd Bob Chambers - "The Church's doctrine of marriage has been reaffirmed recently but this amendment appears quite boldy and, I venture to suggest, brazenly to pursue a course that would immediately appear to be at odds with the restated doctrine of marriage."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	2	32	4
Clergy	76	95	6
Laity	83	102	2

Lost in all three houses

Synod breaks for a cuppa. Back at ten to 5.

Miss Debbie Buggs (London) to move as an amendment:

63 ‘Leave out paragraph (d)’

Miss Debbie Buggs introduced the amendment with the words, "Stop, just stop.. why do we expect a different outcome by going round this track again?"

Revd Mike Smith - "For nearly four decades, for many of you longer still, we've been on an interminable escalator, but it never arrives. We are not really sure where it is going but some of us want it to go faster and others are trying to reverse it."

Rt Revd Karen Gorham - "We are called as Christians to embrace one another, including still the stranger, the marginalised, all made in the image of God - and be changed by them."

Revd Lucy Davis - "My hope now is not for my children, it will be too late for them. But for my children's children - that they will be able to receive God's blessing ion their marriages in church no matter what their sexuality."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	0	30	5
Clergy	66	107	6
Laity	75	105	6

The Amendment was lost in all three houses

The Revd Lis Goddard (London) to move as an amendment:

64 ‘At the end of paragraph (d) insert “, and that the current LLF working groups, in conjunction with the Programme Board, be asked to prepare a review and reflection on LLF, focussed on the work of the LLF working groups. This work should begin immediately and provide the foundation for the work of the proposed new working groups, with the aim of learning from the mistakes of the past and of undertaking honest reflection on the lessons that can be taken forward, so as to avoid having to apologise to members of Synod and our wider communities once again.”.'

Revd Lis Goddard introduced an amendment which she thought had the support of Helen King and Julie Dziegiels of whom she said, "We do not agree on the outcome of this whole process - it is a cross constituency amendment and we are all committed to good process." She continued "We did come up with ways forward, ways forward which were formed by looking the future full in the eye, acknowledging with a rigorous honesty what might lie ahead and then seeking together a way forward."

After the Archbishop of York responded, Helen King withdrew her support.

Mr Nigel Bacon spoke on behalf of Julie Dziegiel - "This amendment seeks to explicitly ensure that the work we did in the working groups is not lost, but gathered, considered, built upon."

Mr Ed Shaw - "I do believe that the way forward, to stay together and allow some of the changes that some people want to bring in are basically on the cutting room floor of what came out of the Leicester Working Group."

Revd Jo Winn-Smith - "That we work not towards consensus but towards the breadth of what it is to truly be Anglican and that is not the lowest common denominator."

Bishop Martyn Snow - "I hope this exercise can address some of the myths that have grown up around this process. I am slightly concerned to hear the Leicester Groups being held up as a shining example. Yes, friendships were formed across differences but there was also pain and possibly some naivety about the workability of our proposals."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	2	28	6
Clergy	88	87	6
Laity	93	87	4

The amendment was lost in the House of Bishops

Point of Order was raised as to whether Item 65 is a repeat of Item 62 but was rejected

Professor Helen King (Oxford) to move as an amendment:

65 ‘At the end, insert:

“( ) Request the Archbishops ensure that a majority of the Relationships, Sexuality and Gender Working Group are in favour of change towards standalone services of blessing

and full inclusion of clergy in same-sex civil marriages; that the Group issues a report in advance of every sitting of General Synod; and that recommendations are delivered with urgency.”.’

Prof. Helen King introduced the amendment, "The problem is it is too much of an end for some and not enough of an end for others - it's not a bang, it's a wimper."

Will Pearson-Gee - "Then it became apparent that the train was going to be repainted, and a new logo painted on the side. The hurt and angry passengers were told the old train had in fact become a new one and would be proceeding with little delay. Unsurprisingly some of the passengers didn't believe this , but realising it was the only train in town agreed to stay on board but they were hardly on speaking terms with the drivers and conductors."

Revd Judith Maltby - "The parallels with LLF and the 1970s [women's ordination] are very strong."

Mrs Catherine Rhodes - ".. who unlike us are not straight couples but couples who are queer, and who don't have the opportunities that we have had to each other support in this costly ministry. That seems like an injustice to me."

Revd Clive Watts - "For those years my partner and I have faithfully served the church in lay and ordained ministries. Then last Autumn I found myself sitting next to an intensive care bed surrounded by machines and doctors, as my loving committed partner of the last 32 years clung to the edge of life. And then the House of Bishops' draft staement was issued. And when it did it felt like one betrayal too many."

Counted vote by Houses

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Bishops	12	21	3
Clergy	81	94	4
Laity	86	100	3

The amendment was lost in all three houses

And so the debate turns back to the original unamended motion - except it doesn't because there is a request for 'a motion for closure' - in other words - let's not talk any more and just vote on the final motion. So there was a vote on that

Vote for closure -

	In Favour	Against	Abstain
Whole Synod	173	208	17

So the debate continues...

Rt Revd Guli Francis-Dehqani - "There is broad agreement, I won't say unanimous because I don't know that, there is broad agreement that we are very, very cautious about anything that would undermine our ecclesiology or our Anglican identity. Anything that looks like delegated episcopal ministry or provides structures for people to be able to choose thier own bishops."

Mr Simon Friend - "This now looks like persecution because whatever the intention behind our processes, the lived experiences of LGBTQI+ Christians I've listened to is one of sustained institutional actions that cause real harm."

Revd Paul Benfield - "I have difficulty knowing how to vote now the motion has not been amended because I have difficulty commending something that might mean we go round and round in circles again."

Dr Piyush Jani - "As we move forward, let Christ and his word be the primary rule by which the bishops govern this place and deal with this issue - not as we heard earlier a combination.... Let us learn first from Christ and then from each other."

Revd Katrina Scott - "The words that I want to be part of our collective memory - and which lead me to support this motion - are love, gratitude and hope."

Mrs Sue Cavill - "But if we as a church want to stay united, as Jesus prayed at the Last Supper we will have to find a compromise."

Revd Kate Massey - "We have all experienced pain but as has been so powerfully illustrated today, the true victims of what what has happened have been our LGBTQ+ siblings."

Revd Andy Fyall (Ecumenical Representatives) - "The Methodist experience has led us to a place where we are seeking to be a growing inclusive Church with evangelism and justce at our heart."

Most Revd Sarah Mullally - "I believe it proposes a sensible way forward that provides us with a structured framework that I believe will take us to the next steps."

Revd Canon Vaughan Roberts - ".. there are people of deep Christian conviction on both sides of this debate and on both sides this is a matter of gospel integrity and understanding of what commitment to Christ means and what commitment to the gospel means. And it is not going to change - which means we cannot meet and continue together in the middle. So let's not try, otherwise we will be here again in four years time.... to accept the pain of a radical differentiation by settlement, which I think will be a lesser pain than the alternatives."

Mr Collins White (Young Adult) - "I do not know how resolution can be reached. I do not have hope for a specific outcome. But I do have hope that in the future our Church will no longer feel the pain of this fault line. I hope that soon we can be fully united as one body of Christ and I know that God will grant this one day."

Rt Revd Ruth Worsley - "I want to encourage us not to give up on hope, but rather to do as Archbishop Sarah has urded us - Let's flex that muscle of hope and exercise our faith a little more . Let's take our seats around the table of invitation and continue to seek the face of Jesus in the breaking of the bread."

Counted vote by Houses